NWRL trains will be driverless

Posted: June 6, 2013 in Transport
Tags: , , ,

NSW Transport Minister Gladys Berejiklian confirmed earlier today that the North West Rail Link will have driverless trains. The new line will be run independently from the rest of the network by a private operator, featuring screen doors and completely automated rolling stock.

Driverless trains are a massive game changer, and have many potential benefits. The most significant is the reduced marginal cost of operating an additional train service. It’s the marginal costs that matter, because it indicates the cost of providing an additional train or savings from cutting one. With lower marginal costs, a much lower level of patronage is needed to maintain a reasonable level of cost recovery via fares. Anecdotal evidence from Vancouver’s Sky Train driverless network (where you never have to wait more than 8 minutes for the next train, even late at night) shows that driverless trains there resulted in marginal cost of $11 per hour.

But there a also reliability and safety benefits. An automated train never calls in sick, or turns up to work late. Meanwhile, human error was responsible for both the Waterfall and Glenbrook disasters, both of which resulted in fatalities.

The transport union has decided to oppose this move, which is unfortunate. Their suggestions that driverless trains will be less safe flies in the face of the Waterfall and Glenbrook examples previously mentioned. It also overlooks the fact that modern aircraft run on autopilot all the time, despite being massive flying machines, where there are many more chances for something to go wrong than a train on a fixed guideway. They probably also fear job losses, but the benefit of driverless trains means that limited resources can be better allocated, to have more station staff or more staff roving trains (something which neither drivers nor guards on trains currently do).

Other concerns have been raised. Advocacy group Action for Public Transport raises the issue of assisting passengers on a train that breaks down between stations on the NWRL, which can be up to 6km apart.

Shadow Transport Minister Penny Sharpe suggests that this represents a broken promise, given that the government had previously said it had no plans to introduce driverless trains. That criticism boils down to how much you consider weasel words to be a broken promise.

Ultimately the decision to go with driverless trains is a good one. It will benefit passengers, and has been proven to work well in many other cities around the world.

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Comments
  1. Steve says:

    Wow I drive trains to Sydney for living. What am I and my children going to do for a living in the future. Do we replace all jobs with computers, where will this all end. To say that Waterfall and Glenbrook DISASTERS are proof that Drivers can’t be trusted is very misleading. Just think of the Billions no I mean Trillions upon Trillions of Kilometres that all our states trains have travelled since 1855 with OH MY GOD human beings driving them, plus the Trillions of passengers we have carried over that time. Now you need to go and find how many people have died through human error on the NSW rail network over the last 158 years and you will find that we are a very safe industry. Don’t use shock news tactics to destroy future jobs in this state. If the last government didn’t sink $500 million into an inner west transport line (that wasn’t built), sold the state lotteries, sold the state retail power industry, sold our state freight rail, the list goes on and on of money making state owned interests. Then say now we need to get rid of our children’s future jobs to save a few bucks when day after day they throw millions of dollars at bloody “studies” for future state infrastructure that never ever see the light of day.

  2. Ray says:

    So What? Double deck trains could also be driverless. It’s not exactly rocket science.

    My gut feeling is that the travelling public, whether justified or not, will have some serious reservations about this.

  3. shiggyshiggy says:

    Listen Steve “our” children wont be driving trains, I can tell you that for free. And why would they want to? What drudgery. If a job can be done more efficiently and cheaply by a machine than by a human, than it should be done by a machine. Did you get all teary when they invented the washing-machine and all those washer ladies no longer had clothes washing careers? No, because that would be silly.

    The benefits of driver-less trains means that we can afford MORE trains, and MORE train lines, for the same amount of money. This will benefit “our” children by giving them greater flexibility and reliability in their lives. Sydney will become more productive if and when its PT is improved, and this is an important step in that direction.

    We do not fully understand what future generations will be doing for work, mostly because the economy will change so completely. All we can do is provide the best environment possible for success, of which PT improvements such as this are an important part.

    Also we are talking about taxpayer dollars here! You should want the best, most cost effective option. This is our money! It is there to provide us with the services we need as a society, not to give cushy jobs to the few.

  4. MrV says:

    Steve, fact is the rail service is very expensive to run. Users only pay a fraction of what it actually costs to run, the rest is paid for taxpayers whether they use the train to get to work or not.

    Ironically the best systems in the world are the driverless systems, see Singapore MRT, SkyTrain in Vancouver etc. There are still jobs in the control centre that runs the system.

    At the very least there is no reason to have a guard on the train as well as the driver, let alone the myriad of platform attendants, who whistle, drop a flag then disappear back into their cubbyhole. You don’t see this absurdity on a whole host of metro systems in the rest of the world and I don’t see why Sydney has to retain this 19th century farce,
    Hell, Wynard has people paid to stare at escalators.

    No other system in the Western world (or even 3rd world) requires so many staff to run such a poor system as happens in Sydney.

    I agree with you on the wasted money on infrastructure projects, and if this money had been used to alleviate current bottlenecks (ie a second rail harbour crossing), then the system wouldn’t be in the state it is.

  5. Tony Bailey says:

    ‘An automated train never calls in sick, or turns up to work late’

    If by this you mean that they never fail, I would appreciate a source.

  6. Martin Silsby says:

    Tony,

    He never said they don’t fail. However as a train driver myself, I can tell you that there are going to be far less safety breaches (signals passed at danger, speeding, etc.) with an automated system than a manually operated one.

    As for there not being drivers on board to evacuate a train should something go wrong, ample evidence from auto tunnels shows that with the appropriate safety equipment, signage and means of egress, people are perfectly capable of self rescuing.

  7. Deus_vult says:

    One could argue that the initiating causes of both Waterfall (driver’s death) and Glenbrook (signaller’s error) had nothing to do with human error on the part of people on the train: rather only that they failed to prevent the impending accident. Of the two, Glenbrook does illustrate the problem with automatic trains: a controller/signaller making a mistake and no one on the ground being able to rectify it.

    A second point is that most of these automatic driverless trains run on rail lines completely separated from their surrounding environment: the Vancouver SkyTrain is elevated, for instance. They also tend to be on sub-100km lines, with most roughly 30km or less in length. Going from these facts (which suits a closed, small line like the NWRL) to conclude that it will suit the entire network (almost 1600 km, most unenclosed) is fairly unrealistic.

  8. ash says:

    I come from Singapore. Tell the public there about driverless trains and they’d say they don’t give one rat’s behind. Children will have no jobs?? HECK they’d love the views! In Singapore’s North East Rail Line (ironic name) there’s a window/glass port at the front where the driver would have been. Kids and kids-at-heart love that! And they won’t lose jobs! Those driver/guard/ jobs won’t be available anyway so what’s there to lose?

    If you’re talking about contingencies, I know in SIngapore they have a control panel near that glass port that can be used in the event of an emergency. And Singaporean MRT passengers have had to endure several emergency tests PLUS breakdowns that forced them to walk out of the train (the front door folds out to become a slope for passengers to walk out on) along the tracks in tunnel and to the nearest station.

    But I acknowledge what Deus_vult is saying. Both points are valid. To have isolated sections of the network on driverless trains is fine, i.e.Rouse Hill – Chatswood. But to continue on to the city with further retrofit of the current tracks involves a lot more uncertainties and factors. I find that to be a risky and expensive affair to the point that it is hard for me to see how we can realistically do it in the future. Going by that thinking, I fear the whole affair will remain for a long time as an isolated line ending at Chatswood – not the best outcome.

    I support you on this Gladys but I doubt about the long-term prospects of a driverless rail network.

    Picture of the front of a driverless train

  9. Steve says:

    Im not saying that the cityrail network is the greatest rail network in the world, and that we need to run it like a 19th century rail system which is how it is currently run. I work on it and I can tell you that it is the most inefficient organistation in the world. What I am saying is that FRONT LINE STAFF keep the bloody thing running not the pollies and thousands of white collar managers its the FRONT LINE STAFF. Millions and millions of tax payer dollars are wasted on insignificant things like changing the name from CityRail to NSW trains link and SYDNEY trains, new uniforms, an entire management structure that has increased manager numbers and their wages as they now have 2 yes 2 organisations instead of 1, 2 CEO’s instead of 1, building the OSCAR trains that they will have to refurbish because they are actually a suburban train with toilets, extend numerous suburban platforms because they built the new Warratah trains too long, a failed opal card and another failed opal card, a line from Epping to Chatswood that cost more than going from Parramatta to Chatswood, I have many more examples of white collar decisions that cost the tax payer millions of dollars. But great they are the ones that will keep their jobs because they come up with the idea that having ZERO staff saves money so they can go on wasting millions of dollars. What happens after that? Do they shut the rail system down cause THAT SAVES MONEY.

  10. MrV says:

    The practices of procurement, construction and general management ripoffs and stuffups do need to be addressed. I would love to see the broom put through the upper levels of management, and bring in an operator with a track record.There seems to be no accountability.

    Video on NSW infrastructure ripoffs:

    That said, replacement of the magnetic strip ticket system is well overdue, and extending a few platforms should not be rocket surgery.

    Front line staff can certainly improve, write anonmously to the Minister if need be!
    One example:
    Have you seen trains being terminated at central from around 6pm?
    My questions are, why are trains terminating at 6pm? Is this not still not a peak period?
    How many staff does it take to terminate a train? A waratah has (by my count) 8 internal cameras plus two on the exterior (each side) and yet staff need to physicially walk through the train? Meanwhile the doors are left open and despite the computer message (repeating non stop) risks other people getting on the train.
    Why can’t trains be terminated somewhere else where they aren’t holding up following trains and causing delays, either at the end of the line, or even Platform 10 at Redfern that is off the busy lines.

  11. Steve says:

    It cost $12,000 per OSCAR cab to have the Driver’s kettle removed during manufacture of the later series models. Could they not have been installed and then removed after delivery for free? How about spending more money on extending platforms. Could they not have measured the platforms first and saved that money as well as the money saved on shorter trains? Whats wrong with our uniforms. Why cant they just change the logo? Why are we driving trains at a max speed of 115km/h when the OSCAR, Warratah, and Millennium trains max in service speed is 130km/h? Why did it cost over $200,000 for a demountable meal room? Why has it taken over 5 years of testing for the new Automatic Train Protection system to be tested but still not installed? Why are they refurbing Tangara train sets with new seats when they are 10 years over their service date? Why is the Western Australian Government building brand new rail lines that need human beings to operate the trains when clearly NSW driverless $200 Billion per kilometre track is the future? Great video of why NSW is broke and need to sell the farm and rid NSW of thousands of tax payers jobs.

  12. Ray says:

    Agree with you Steve, there are a lot of unanswered questions out there. Just shows how naïve Gladys and her government are. They have been conned by the self serving bureaucrats and more pointedly, the avaricious consultants, who seem to have taken over government decision making with impunity.

  13. Joni says:

    One section of tunnel on the NWRL is going to be 6 km, what happens if the train stops due to some error/malfunction that a driver would easily rectify and then every one is stuck underground in the smaller diameter tunnels? The tunnel will not be made wide enough for easy evacuation esp for a child in a pram, or a wheelchair bound passenger!

    I’d also like some answers to these seemingly implausible points – The implausible things seem:

    1.Tunnel size too small and incompatible with future NW area expansion
    2.Rail grades too steep for current fleet
    3.New metro fleet would demonstrably mean smaller capacity per train
    4.New metro fleet would require a large independent maintenance facility
    5.Single deck, mainly standing room, does not really make sense for an outer urban train service
    6.Rewiring the Epping to Chatswood for Metro will impact around 10000 Macquarie UNI Students & other workers using that Epping-Chatswood line – no service for how long?
    7.Transiting at Chatswood is not really practicable to loaded north shore trains;
    8.Transiting between NWRL and interurban/suburban services is more likely at Epping
    9. Post NWRL, all northern line suburban train services are to terminate at Central – passengers have to transit there to suburban line services? How long will a trip from say Pennant Hills to Wynyard take currently in minutes compared to AFTER the NWRL is completed ???

  14. Steve says:

    What about vision impaired passengers, passenger safety at night (fights, rape, theft, train destruction, etc), wheelchair access on and off trains, emergency breakdowns that crew now repair or limp the train out of service, door failure how do you get off, terrorists, how do you get directions or info, the trains will not be able to operate on the current network adding to journey times, what happens with a change of government or direction of thinking with the rail system you will then have 2 different rail systems that will cost a fortune to convert into one or the other.

  15. shiggyshiggy says:

    I know Steve and Joni!

    It is completely fanciful to suggest that driver-less trains could work………..

    I mean every time I’ve used the Tube or the Singapore MRT its clearly magic cityrail fairies stopping all the passengers from dying horrible fiery deaths.

  16. MrV says:

    Steve,

    The things you describe above are happening now, and thats with each train having a driver, guard and stations with a myriad of flagmen who drop a flag before disappearing back into their broom cupboard.
    You still have staff providing customer info or police/transit officiers providing security in any driverless system, not to mention CCTV support.
    Personally I don’t think a driverless system is going to occur anytime soon, primarily because if the NWRL is built as a metro system to Chatswood, it’s not really long enough to be viable. And the change at Chatswood looks to be problematic.
    To make it more viable they would have to extend it into the city, perhaps with a station at Crows Nest before crossing the harbour with a couple of city stations and then either extending it to South/East suburbs or via the West to areas that currently have no surburban service.
    Sure you would then have to support 2 types of network, but other cities manage this. Paris has RER and Metro (for example).
    But the fact remains driverless systems have been around for 30 years, its old technology, yet we see the tired old safety arguments being wheeled out (as expected) by the usual vested interests.

  17. Joni says:

    It’s not so much the driverless trains that are the problem as the smaller TUNNEL SIZE leading to hazardous evacuations for wheel chair bound, disabled, blind, children in prams etc.

    Also, how much will it cost to run 24 trains an hour – every 5 minutes there and back as a shuttle service — on this line and where will they get the stock from?? Or will that be another broken promise. Why have heating on the stations if there will be no waiting for more than a few minutes??

    I note nobody has answered my questions from Saturday night yet….

  18. Steve says:

    Yes the tech has existed for many years so why is it not taking off. Look at the actual best rail system in the entire world which is the French TGV system. It still has drivers and staff on board. I think that just about every job in the country could be done by automation but its not perfect and we are long way off human emulation. As for blaming staff for not doing their job properly that is unfair. Yes like every industry and every workforce there are lazy people who don’t take their position seriously but don’t tar all rail workers with the same brush. Joni 1. Saves money. 2. They will use the saved money to waste on new trains. 3. They will come up with some UK based political spin on how smaller trains carry more people. 4. All the money saved on sacking staff and selling off public assets will pay for a new joint venture PPP facility. 5. It makes as much sense as the OSCAR suburban trains with a toilet. 6. A long time as contractors will need time to bleed the NSW tax payer dry and the next government will pay it out and can it. 7. They don’t care about the customer even though they say the customer comes first just as long as you don’t ask them what they would like. 8. Probably is the best way but refer to 7. 9. They don’t care. Look at the ground up timetable change in october. Most service’s will take longer not less as they said. Oh unless you live in a swinging seat you may get better cause they need the votes. The Libs are trying to get things done in a short period as they are hampered with a run down archaic system that will take 20 years of good planning to fix. They are trying to please the newspapers by rushing ahead and I think that regardless of driverless trains or not they are not thinking it through and in 10 years a split rail system will create a load of trouble. Everyone stop comparing Sydney Trains to other cities we have an aborted system with different problems.

  19. Joni says:

    Thanks Steve. It’s not looking good.

  20. MrV says:

    Steve, I can’t believe how disingenuous you are being. TGV is a high speed rail system, serving relatively long distance destinations, not in any way comparable to a metro system.
    That said even TGV manages to operate with less staff (and provide better service) than Sydneys bloated suburban system.

    Also the reason driverless systems are not everywhere is due to the labour v capital tradeoff. Provided labour costs for drivers/staff isn’t too high then there is no need for an automated system . However where you get crazy union involvement pushing up wages, without offering much in the way of productivity improvement then spending on capital (driverless trains) becomes that much more attractive. If you got rid of the guards then by definition driver productivity would double, get rid of half the flagmen in broom cupboards and productivity would increase further, making it easier to justify the drivers salary.

    Joli,A driverless system if you were to operate it 24/7 can be done for far less operating cost than a system with drivers/guards for the simple reason you only have to pay salaries for staff in the control room. Rather than staff on every train that is in operation, you can bring trains into and out of service with little additional costs, where this is clearly not the case if you have to pay drivers at unsocial hours.

    As for evacuations, people are more than capable of self-evacuating. All that is required is appropriate signage, means of egress and lighting etc.
    Regardless, if the train had 800 people on board, how much influence is one driver and a guard going to have in genuine emergency situation anyway? Particularly given at least one of them is likely to be dead.

  21. mich says:

    Cityrail had nothing to do with the uselessness of the Pyrmont Light Rail.

  22. mich says:

    “Look at the ground up timetable change in october. Most service’s will take longer not less as they said. ”

    All-stops trains from Hornsby to Central have their timetabled duration cut from 51 to 49 minutes. So yeah, they’ll take longer. And most peak-hour services cut to 46 minutes (by skipping stops). Even longer !

  23. mich says:

    “primarily because if the NWRL is built as a metro system to Chatswood, it’s not really long enough to be viable. ”

    What’s the basis for this assertion ? Rouse Hill to Chatswood is longer than most world subway lines.

  24. Joni says:

    Post NWRL, all northern line suburban train services are to terminate at Central – passengers have to transit there to suburban line services? How long will a trip from say Pennant Hills to Wynyard take currently in minutes compared to AFTER the NWRL is completed ???

  25. mich says:

    I’d also like some answers to these seemingly implausible points – The implausible things seem:

    1.Tunnel size too small and incompatible with future NW area expansion
    >> What does this even mean ?

    2.Rail grades too steep for current fleet
    >> There is no geological reason why any of the grades have to be unreasonably steep.

    3.New metro fleet would demonstrably mean smaller capacity per train
    >> Yes. But they supposedly run more often. Cities like Beijing, New York and London run with small-format trains and they have a lot more people than Rouse Hill ever will.

    4.New metro fleet would require a large independent maintenance facility
    >> They would need that for more trains, anyway.

    5.Single deck, mainly standing room, does not really make sense for an outer urban train service
    >> Completely agree.

    6.Rewiring the Epping to Chatswood for Metro will impact around 10000 Macquarie UNI Students & other workers using that Epping-Chatswood line – no service for how long?
    >> It is not even actually obvious that they would have to do this, at all.

    7.Transiting at Chatswood is not really practicable to loaded north shore trains;
    >> Possibly true, in the AM anyway. But other countries manage.

    8.Transiting between NWRL and interurban/suburban services is more likely at Epping
    >> NWRL passengers will have a choice, depending on where they are going.

    9. Post NWRL, all northern line suburban train services are to terminate at Central – passengers have to transit there to suburban line services? How long will a trip from say Pennant Hills to Wynyard take currently in minutes compared to AFTER the NWRL is completed ???
    >> There will be three ways from Pennant Hills to Wynyard and passengers are quite capable to trying all three and deciding which is fastest, most comfortable and least aggravating to them

  26. Joni says:

    Why the evasion?? Of course the time taken to get in now will be far less than in the future with all the changes of trains. How is that fair or progressive?

  27. Joni says:

    Even if the 3 changes there and 3 changes back add 20 min extra a day that adds up to 100 min a week or 123 hours a year – that’s a lot of lost time and productivity. Many people on the trains use the travel time to work or study.

  28. MrV says:

    Mich,

    Yes it is longer than many metro lines, but the population density along the line is lower.
    The question is where will people using the line be commuting to? Some will go to Macquarie Park, that is fine, but I suspect the rest will require a change at Chatswood on to already crowded services, and this I see as problematic. It might work offpeak, but I can’t see how it will during peak.
    That said, so long as there is a plan to extend it further (in the short term rather than long term). I see a second harbour crossing as the answer and it’s pretty clear this would increase the overall system capacity by at least 50%. Why is it not even on the serious planning board?

  29. MrV –

    A Second Harbour Rail Crossing is current government policy, but little planning work has yet to occur because the NWRL is the current focus.

    42% of Hills residents on the NWRL are expected to go to a destination North of the Harbour. 33% are expected to get off by Chatswood. I wrote about the figures in more detail here: https://transportsydney.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/which-is-the-best-alignment-for-the-northwest-rail-link/

  30. Ray says:

    Whilst I don’t agree with the current North West “Rapid Transit” concept, let me make a few things clear. All Northern Line services will not have to terminate at Central. Services from Hornsby could take over the paths of the existing Epping to CBD services throughout the day (currently 4 tph to the North Shore Line) which is effectively reverting to the previous operating pattern prior to the opening of the ECRL and this could be supplemented in peak hours with up to an additional 4 tph from Epping to Central.

    Although this is not ideal, it would at least potentially double the service from Epping to Central from 4 to 8 tph on one of the most overcrowded sectors of the CityRail network. The recently leaked new draft timetable proposed an additional 2 semi express services in the AM peak from Epping to Central, stopping at Eastwood, West Ryde, Meadowbank, Rhodes and Strathfield then express to Central Terminal. The semi express service was obviously necessary to keep ahead of the following Intercity service, which has a headway of 7 minutes at Epping, reducing to 2 minutes by the time both services arrived at Central Terminal. With the completion of the quad between Epping and Strathfield (West Ryde to Rhodes) as the next stage of the Northern Sydney Freight Corridor Program, there is the potential to have additional all stations services from Epping to Central because of the greater flexibility of express services to overtake them.

    As an aside, the greatest tragedy with the proposed “Rapid Transit” concept is that it will totally compromise the efficient operation of the remaining CityRail/Sydney Trains network, completely destroying sectorisation and with no prospect of additional capacity from Strathfield to the CBD for Western, Southern and Northern Line services. The government has ignored the consequences of their actions for the efficient operation of the greater city wide rail network.

  31. Gavin says:

    “Wow I drive trains to Sydney for living. What am I and my children going to do for a living in the future. Do we replace all jobs with computers, where will this all end.”

    You’re not looking at the bigger picture! Why is a train driver job considered more important than any other job in an economy?

    Consider this. On most Australian suburban lines offpeak frequency tends to only be every 15-30 mins, even less late at night, because there is little incentive to run more services due to a combination of low passenger numbers and adequate capacity.

    The problem is, a train coming every 30 mins is hardly attractive, and even every 15 mins is borderline in terms of what people will wait.

    With a driverless line, you can run a train every 5-8 mins 7 days a week right till midnight, and it costs barely anything to do so.

    Once you are at this high frequency of operation, people have a lot more freedom, they don’t need to buy extra cars, and you’d get a pretty big boost in economic activity and productivity.
    So you might lose out on having a couple of hundred drivers employed on that line, but think of all the other jobs that would occur naturally throughthe presence of a high efficiency piece of transport infrastrucuture. construction and property development along the line, new shops and cafes because people spend less time travelling and more time at leisure,
    The money saved by the government on train driver wages could go to “higher value” jobs for teachers and nurses, rather than paying a guy to blow a whistle.

    Besides, who cares if certain basic jobs get replaced by machines. Do we miss the switchers at the telephone exchange, or people lighting gas streetlights, or lift attendants? My advice to my children would be to get a job in an area that requires independent thought and skill that computers will never be able to re-create.

  32. Ray says:

    But would there really be a demand for trains every 5-8 minutes 7 days a week, particularly in the late evening until midnight or beyond, regardless of whether they are driverless or not? I don’t think so.

  33. Ray –

    Demand doesn’t need to be very high at all. Going by the Vancouver SkyTrain figures from the tweet in the post, all you need is $11 of fare revenue to cover the additional cost of running a train for an extra hour. Even with the low Opal off peak single fare, that means 4 passengers per hour. Would higher frequencies create demand of at least 4 new passengers per hour for each new train added? I think it would.

    Current plans are to run trains on the NWRL every 10 minutes outside the peaks, including on weekends, right through till the last train around midnight.

  34. I live in WA but have a strong interest in trains. I believe that automation technology could work in terms of providing a high-capcity frequent service, but I would not feel entirely safe on a driverless train. They need to follow the model used by the Docklands Light Railway in London, where trains are computer-controlled but manned by someone who can take manual control in an emergency.

    Example: if a signal failure occurs on the DLR, the service can continue under manual operation, albeit with some delays. And what happens if a fire breaks out or their is a medical emergency? Commuters can not be relied on to take control of many situations due to the “bystander effect”, so having a driver on board, ready to take action, is the best scenario.

    Not only that, but I always sit close to the driver so that if something goes wrong and I can’t reach the emergency intercom, help is still close at hand.

    If I ever visit Sydney, I won’t be riding the new link unless I have no other choice.

  35. Joni says:

    I totally agree especially considering that the train is mainly deep underground in smaller than regular diameter tunnels, making evacuation very difficult. see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WopuUALfDuI and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5upD1WkEvBE

  36. I would hope that the government is building some kind of fire safety feature into the new trains and tunnels like they are supposed to, such as an emergency walkway and ventilation. Even then, if there are no drivers, it will be absolute chaos. History has shown us that the majority of human beings are not rational thinkers.

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